Doesn't sound good.

Good as Risc OS 4 is, it still needs more development.
If it doesn't get it, then thats one more nail in the coffin so to speak.

i wonder when some *real* statements are released to the public - not only on iconbar but to the dedicated foundation members for example. <grr>

To ensure confidence in the OS and Platform something needs to be done fast. No one (even ardent Acorn supporters like me) is going to support the OS or Platform if it is effectively dead.

Either ROL have to (i). Make a statement and ensure that staff for maintaining & developing ROS are put in place or

(ii). Acorn users should consider a project to replace RiscOS with a "workalike" OS that supports the same SWIs but is developed independantly by the user group (a sort of ROS alternative to the Linux Model).

or

(iii). Open the OS to the user group, or independant developers who can undertake development of the OS if ROL don't themselves.

Something needs to be done fast.......

Regards

Annraoi

On talking to RiscStation at Wakefield it was painfully obvious just how frustrating the hardware dependencies in RISC OS are, especially given that the Evolution board was there and running - just not running RISC OS. These companies want to offer alternative / better hardware but simply can't. This isn't a criticism of RISC OS Ltd, who I'm sure are doing their best to improve matters, simply a statement of what is.

I also don't believe that open sourcing RISC OS would necessarily succeed. Look at how many "open sourced" projects on the platform have succeeded and how many have failed. Out of all the projects I believe the only success so far is Zap. Failures that spring to mind are

Sunflower
Martin Piper / Robin Watts 3D Engine
StrongEd / StrongHelp
Webite (yes it is being developed but as far as I'm aware the pleas for extra help have not been answered)
Rozilla (this may be unfair, but it's difficult to judge as I've never been able to even decompress the threading module)
All the games in the Acorn Arcade / VOTI coding vault
The Straylight software (ie shared dynamic linker)

..and these are just the ones that come immediately to mind. The RISC OS market may be full of developers but they are mainly freetime developers who probably cannot commit to large, long term projects. Linux maybe the same but the sheer number of developers working on it cancels out these problems. At least while RISC OS Ltd has the OS it is someones job and responsibility to improve it. Mind you we can't afford to keep losing developers of Justin's calibre (and his web pages suggest that this is precisely what is happening)

NEURONET (A neuronal network for RISC OS)
SILOG (An Expert System maker)
MAGA (A software for store business)
CAESAR's MEGASTORE (For make e-commerce with RISC OS)

Other this i'm working arround NAVAHO Server suite and also SAMBA Server for insert RISC OS machines in italian business intranets (but all peoples ask me why RISC OS don't speack italian?) so actualy i'm working also arround an italian version of RISC OS.

Wel do you think that this is for spend my free time or for play? Well i hope that you mind don't think this because otherwise is very sad :-(

P.S. to not more time will be ready my website where you will can download my PD software (that are not simple software, i did make a PD version of NEURONET, in windows world you must pay for have it and it cost is NOT low) and other stuffs like a support for let function devices under RISC OS 4 (I'm trying a lot of periferials with my RiscPC and build driver where is requested) i believe in open source specialy for programmers like me, i think that open source in RISC OS will let it grow...

[Edited by 109 at 16:08, 12/06/2000]

What we are left with is a number of highly skilled free time developers who do it because they enjoy it. Out of these developers a large number are either in full time education or have full time jobs. Because developing for RISC OS is not their ultimate responsibility support can be sparodic. It's all too common for a person to stop developing for RISC OS because their other commitments take over - just naming two - Paul Thomson whos 3D Engine for VOTI will probably never be completed, and more recently TBA Software. I personally am just as guilty of this. On my hard disk sits the source code for a TAG style 3D engine and the first part of the Sunflower project (the Warp graphics API) which died along with the Sunflower project (note what happened there was beyond the control of the organiser). What happened was that my PhD took precedence over both of them, and being in an unrelated field meant it was difficult to justify spending time on them. I am currently hoping to redress this "failure" rate somewhat but I refuse to be drawn into discussing potential projects because I don't want to be accused of writing vapourware. I'm also stuck with an A4000 because I don't want to spend a large amount of cash only to have the market collapse. Everytime things are looking up we hear stories of all the developers leaving RISC OS Ltd or something.

This is why I'm not sure that open sourcing RISC OS would work. We're in a very difficult situation right now, with developers leaving and seemingly no replacements coming along, and let's be honest, who really would want to hack all that ARM assembler source code. I know I wouldn't.

I suspect the most plausible solution to the concerns Lee had would be the proposal that an formal organisation of freelance programmers to work on a "gradual" upgrade of RISC OS is the way to go. Very few developers make a living off RISC OS at the moment, but I think if more developers share the tasks and the load it will be possible to get useful amounts of work done and make the platform more attractive. This after all is what happened with Linux. With the Internet and Email it should be possible to coordinate developments so that no one individual is lumbered with too much to handle (or if other commitments come up that the work can be continued anyway).

With a vibrant and developing OS on interesting new hardware that is the way to guarantee sales and then maybe more of us could make a living on a nice platform rather than on the PC !