Um, yes. Castle would be *very* stupid if they made it impossible to use the GeForce 2 for 3D graphics. Not providing an API for it perhaps, but they should at least allow knowledgeable users to write one themselves.

This should let us port a load of games, really from about 1997 when Quake 2 came out and 3D accelerators took off, up to a year or two ago (*) when the GF2 became old hat.

(*) - Providing we have a floating point unit to back it up. MD will be providing one for the Omega, but there's no word about one for Iyonix. Of course with hardware 3D graphics there won't be too much FP left to do which can't be done in, say, fixed point, so it may not be so much of a problem.

[edit]

Plus all this will only happen if the source is available, there are programmers to port the games, and people will buy/play them, before anyone corrects me

[Edited by Phlamethrower at 18:04, 29/11/2002]

(*) - Providing we have a floating point unit to back it up. MD will be providing one for the Omega, but there's no word about one for Iyonix.

Oi! Tim/Rich/Other miscellaneous AA person! Go ask Castle about Iyonix and 3D acceleration!

*realises he is now a AA staff member and so could do it himself*

Right, where's Castle's email address...

[edit]

Interesting, three addresses show up on the Iyonix site. The one in the contacts section is sales@iyonix.com, and the one in the developer section is printed as sales@castle.uk.co but actually links to jackl@castle.uk.co

Might as well try Jack Lillingston's one then

[Edited by Phlamethrower at 15:14, 2/12/2002]

You missed off Elite

and Artex Software. Exodus was class.

Um, yes. Castle would be *very* stupid if they made it impossible to use the GeForce 2 for 3D graphics. Not providing an API for it perhaps, but they should at least allow knowledgeable users to write one themselves.

This should let us port a load of games, really from about 1997 when Quake 2 came out and 3D accelerators took off, up to a year or two ago (*) when the GF2 became old hat.

Also, I think it would be good to get some of the preasent RISC OS games converted to 32bit. Is TEK being made 33bit? Also, for games like Marsquake, where the source is available, they could be converted to 32bit.

Cheers,

Mike

Yes I missed Elite although I though Exile represented the peak of the BBC games era. I accept that the /range/ of publishers might have been greater in 1984 with people like Ocean and manymore developing games but by 1988 the game quality was overall far better in light of Superior's emergence although there was to be one final boost with the arrival of 4th Dimension (I think their first game was either Holed Out or UIM in 1998 as well).

Um, yes. Castle would be *very* stupid if they made it impossible to use the GeForce 2 for 3D graphics. Not providing an API for it perhaps, but they should at least allow knowledgeable users to write one themselves.

Castle may tell you how to interface with the card from ARM code, but programming the card's 3D engine will require information from Nvidia; information which Castle may have but may not be able to release easily to RISC OS developers.

Note there is an XFree86 driver for the GeForce 2. Whether that would help anyone produce a RISC OS driver I've no idea.

Personally I'd like to see RISC OS standardise on OpenGL for a 3D API. The only real alternative if Direct3D and I'm fairly sure MS would have a thing or two to say about a RISC OS version of that.

Of course original games will always have the problem of finding artists and musicians. A new machine isn't going to solve that (quite large) particular problem.

As soon as I can make sense of their legal mumbo jumbo I'll know whether I can tell you lot or not

However I'm guessing that since neither of them have explicitly told me it's top secret, and anyone else can find out the answers just by emailing them, I might as well spill the beans:

Omega will use OpenGL, while Iyonix only has 2D implemented 'at the moment', and they will be providing a technical reference manual 'soon'. Of course since they haven't released any press releases about this or anything, it may be subject to change.

<blockquote><font color="#667799">You missed off Elite </blockquote></font>

and Artex Software. Exodus was class.

<blockquote><font color="#667799">Um, yes. Castle would be *very* stupid if they made it impossible to use the GeForce 2 for 3D graphics. Not providing an API for it perhaps, but they should at least allow knowledgeable users to write one themselves.

This should let us port a load of games, really from about 1997 when Quake 2 came out and 3D accelerators took off, up to a year or two ago (*) when the GF2 became old hat.</blockquote></font>

Also, I think it would be good to get some of the preasent RISC OS games converted to 32bit. Is TEK being made 33bit? Also, for games like Marsquake, where the source is available, they could be converted to 32bit.

Cheers,

Mike

Also, I think it would be good to get some of the preasent RISC OS games converted to 32bit. Is TEK being made 33bit? Also, for games like Marsquake, where the source is available, they could be converted to 32bit.

33bit will be a bit of an effort, but it is very well possible that a 32bit version will be available in the near future.

Cheers,
Jan Klose
Artex Software

33bit will be a bit of an effort, but it is very well possible that a 32bit version will be available in the near future.

Wow! Thanks for the reply, Jan.

33bit will be a bit of an effort, but it is very well possible that a 32bit version will be available in the near future.

Heh, I remember an Amiga-toting friend in school mentioning a demo-group (or something) called '17 bit' with a tagline something like 'that bit more'. If I remember correctly I was slightly amused by this.

We're making a few assumptions here on the level of uptake of the machine (OK, I hope it will be high too) and the floating point issues, not to mention 32 bit issues and Open-GL / Direct 3D / any half decent 3D library being available. On top of the fact that the machines cost a king's ransom, the graphix card (OK, big improvement on nothing, I admit) is out of date, we probably can't expect Nvidia to even notice our existence let alone provide any help with implementation, and an X box can do a lot better for a fraction of the price. I hate being negative, because I really hope that the Omega and Iyonix are a success, but games wise it's hard to see this happening.

Dave

...and an X box can do a lot better for a fraction of the price...

You are joking right?
Both the alternatives (PS2, GC) have more games worth playing. What does the Xbox have? Halo, and.. er...

A pathetic frame rate? Most of the Xbox ads i've seen on TV show games with a frame rate way below 20fps. Not good in my books, especially considering the low level of detail present on screen at some points.

Having actually played a few X-Box games I've not seen any real frame rate problems. Are you sure the problems in the ads are not just a feature of the ads?

OK loris, go back and read the post again. I stated that an X box beats an Iyonix for a fraction of the price. Maybe a PS2 beats an X box, maybe a Gamecube does too. But an X box still beats Iyonix / Omega. No contradiction.

Well it does if all you want to play is one good game
My point was that if you want more than one, buy one of the others. (I believe Xbox is slightly cheaper than PS2 ATM bit more expensive than Gamecube).
Myself I recently got a PS2 so I could play ICO, and it was fantastic. I also got space channel 5 which is very charming (but I've got no rhythm so I'm s***e at it). Last week my demo disk arrived and it had a fantastic demo of another rythm action game called Gitaroo man. I *have* to get this, but I dunno whether it is out yet. And there are lots of other good games to cater to your taste. But on X-box... well, Edge has basically been disappointed by every other game IIRC.

The thing is, noone is going to buy a new RiscOS machine just for games. But once you've bought it for all the other reasons, you'll want games for it. The same argument should hold true for x86 PCs
too, but many PC-gamer types are snobs about consoles.

Having actually played a few X-Box games I've not seen any real frame rate problems. Are you sure the problems in the ads are not just a feature of the ads?

I dunno - but to me some parts of the ads don't look smooth at all, e.g. Halo and Splinter Cell. Could just be me though

[edit]

I've now paid attention to a few more game ads, and the graphics seem just as jerky in those as well - probably from lack of the motion blur you'd get with normal film. Either I've picked on those two games because the camera seemed to move round a lot and make it more noticeable, or it's my anti-MS bias

The thing is, noone is going to buy a new RiscOS machine just for games. But once you've bought it for all the other reasons, you'll want games for it.

Yup

The same argument should hold true for x86 PCs too, but many PC-gamer types are snobs about consoles.

*ducks impending PC v Console flamewar*

[Edited by Phlamethrower at 23:51, 11/12/2002]