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Castle Technology deny GPL breach |
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Paul Stewart |
Message #91729, posted at 19:23, 10/2/2003 |
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At least that settles it!!!! No wrong doing on behalf of Castle All that's needed now is an apology from the Linux people. |
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Moose |
Message #91730, posted at 19:25, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91729 |
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WHAT settles it? CTL: "We did no wrong, guv" Judge: "Ok, if you say so, you're free to go" -- what a load of crap! |
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GuestX |
Message #91731, posted by guestx at 19:28, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91730 |
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More investigation required by Dr Blix, erm Justin Fletcher, and his team, I think. On the one hand you have a declaration of no Linux kernel code being used, but on the other, certain things are "based in part" on Linux kernel sources. Now, if it had been said that the function *names* used in RISC OS 5.x had been based on those employed in the Linux kernel sources, then Castle would be pretty instantly off the hook (excluding the dreadful possibility that they are not giving a full declaration of their weapons programmes, erm source code origins). But that isn't what has been said. To top it all off, we get offered the source code - something which wouldn't have happened if this GPL furore hadn't come up. Add to that the "integral part of a forthcoming Linux port" and I'm sure it wouldn't require an invitation to be issued to Donald Rumsfeld to find someone who isn't entirely convinced by this particular development. |
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Anonymous |
Message #91732, posted at 19:29, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91731 |
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Personally I'll wait and see what Justin Fletcher has to say in response. He is a well respected member of the RISC OS community and his words also carry much weight. |
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Peter Naulls |
Message #91733, posted by pnaulls at 19:34, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91732 |
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Yay, verbatim press release. Well done TIB :-) |
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Andrew Poole |
Message #91734, posted by andypoole at 19:35, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91733 |
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Yay! pointless comment! well done Peter |
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John Hoare |
Message #91735, posted by moss at 19:35, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91734 |
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/me slaps you both :-p |
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SimonC |
Message #91736, posted at 19:36, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91735 |
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All that says is there's nothing in the RO kernel, which suggests that the PCI code is not part of the kernel, but somewhere else. To be honest I was hoping all along that this was a big mistake, but that statement makes it look less likely. Just what does "based on" mean? |
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Andrew Sidwell |
Message #91737, posted by takkaria at 19:36, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91736 |
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One presumes CTL mean that they've based their code interface on the Linux header files. As the header files are an interface, they are not breaching the GPL for using interfaces is allowed. BTW: does the Iyonix still have Paint, Edit and Draw in ROM? If so, they might want to make them disc-based instead and have them on the HD. |
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Gavin Smith |
Message #91738, posted by SparkY at 19:36, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91737 |
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It's what I have been waiting to read all day :) I also look forward to Drobe's take on it cos, frankly, I don't fully understand it. I don't think they did a great job in their "avoidance of doubt"... |
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Liyonix User |
Message #91739, posted at 19:42, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91738 |
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Maybe RISC OS 5 is all fake. Perhaps it's actually just Linux running the fake RISC OS front end?! |
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John Hoare |
Message #91740, posted by moss at 19:43, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91739 |
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Yes; I was confused about it as well. I hope takka is correct. |
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GuestX |
Message #91741, posted by guestx at 19:45, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91740 |
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Well, Liyonix User - hmmm, is Liyonix a bit like Lindows? ;-) - if they'd done that, I can imagine that a fair number of people would be rather interested. Even I and a number of cynical cohorts would be tempted to give it a spin, not to mention all those people on Slashdot... |
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Andrew Sidwell |
Message #91742, posted by takkaria at 19:48, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91741 |
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I was kind of hoping that people would recognize the trolling attempt by the "Liyonix user" and ignore him. Sadly not. Be sensible, if anyone says RO in any form is Linux with a RO fake front-end, ignore them. They're trolls, they live off pointless replies. |
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Jeffrey Lee |
Message #91743, posted by Phlamethrower at 19:51, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91742 |
Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot Hot stuff
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"Interesting." /me munches some popcorn and waits for the next round... |
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Annraoi |
Message #91744, posted by ams at 19:54, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91743 |
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The above seems a satisfactory enough explanation. As the source for the PCI/HAL will be available that should allow an A/B comparison of that source with the sources from Linux (whatever version Justin used) to be made. This hopefully finally sorts this matter out. Regards Annraoi |
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Stinky Wizzleteats |
Message #91745, posted at 19:55, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91744 |
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"Loosely based on", in that substantial chunks compile the same. How odd. 3.5" disc? What's this? The stone age? Or do they need some time to reformat the source... and if it's *nothing* to do with GPL why are they releasing it to anyone? Something steeenks. |
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Simon Wilson |
Message #91746, posted by ksattic at 19:58, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91745 |
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LOL, you could probably fit most of the source for RISC OS onto a single 3.5" disk. I think we should reserve further judgement until someone gets a chance to compare the source from Castle with the source from Linux. |
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Stinky Wizzleteats |
Message #91747, posted at 19:59, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91746 |
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Equally the "The RISC OS 5.00 kernel did not contain work taken from or derived from the ARM-Linux or Linux kernel." lines are dodgy. The kernel could be defined in many ways, and the questioned code could be easily claimed to be external from the kernel. |
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Darren Winsper |
Message #91748, posted at 20:03, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91747 |
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I still think they're in violation. If the code is based in part on GPL code, then the distributed product itself falls under the GPL. See Section 2b in particular:
b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. Castle have admitted their product in part contains code derived from Linux, which is under the GPL. Seems pretty clear-cut to me. |
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Phlip |
Message #91749, posted at 20:04, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91748 |
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Moo |
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Andrew Sidwell |
Message #91750, posted by takkaria at 20:04, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91749 |
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Darren: the header files are merely an interface; using an interface is not a breach of the GPL. See above on this news item. |
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GuestX |
Message #91751, posted by guestx at 20:05, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91750 |
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Good point, SW. In /usr/src/linux-xxx, the PCI stuff doesn't *all* appear in the kernel directory - some of it is in the drivers directory as "pci", alongside the "acorn" directory, although I hope Castle doesn't need to borrow Acorn Podule support from Linux. :-) |
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Simon Wilson |
Message #91752, posted by ksattic at 20:07, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91751 |
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Castle have admitted their product in part contains code derived from Linux No they haven't - where did you read that? |
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Darren Winsper |
Message #91753, posted at 20:08, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91752 |
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I quote:
the hardware abstraction layer (roughly analogous to a PC's BIOS) has it's PCI allocation and bridge setup based in part on the following functions from the Linux kernel sources: Where does it say they only used headers? |
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Andrew Sidwell |
Message #91754, posted by takkaria at 20:09, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91753 |
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Darren: look, they say they haven't used GPL'd code. Therefore we assume that they've used headers only, which means that the information they've given us makes sense, and if we believe them, then they're not breaching the GPL. |
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Simon Wilson |
Message #91755, posted by ksattic at 20:12, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91754 |
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We must give Castle the benefit of the doubt till someone compares the sources. It's not breaking copyright to base your work upon someone elses, unless the product/process in question is patented. It is against the law to directly derive your work from someone elses if the work is copyrighted. However, Castle have denied this and we must wait to examine their proof. |
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Stinky Wizzleteats |
Message #91756, posted at 20:12, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91755 |
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Merely copying function headers would not result in identical compiled output. You'd need to duplicate structures, and, oops, code. They're up shite creek without a paddle, engine etc, and if their boat has as many holes as that press release, they're shafted. |
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Darren Winsper |
Message #91757, posted at 20:17, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91756 |
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Bloody hell, it's right there in the press release. They say the kernel doesn't have any GPL code in it, but the hardware abstraction layer has code based off Linux PCI code. Why would they say it's based off Linux code if it just had a (largely) compatible interface?! |
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Andrew Sidwell |
Message #91758, posted by takkaria at 20:19, 10/2/2003, in reply to message #91757 |
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Darren: because that's what "based on" can mean, funnily enough. I've seen it used that way before, and it's perfectly normal. |
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